Sexual Addictions

Comments

• Vince,

  I agree with you that we are all responsible for our actions regardless of the situations. I also agree that if you suffer from a sexual addiction or any addiction getting counseling will do more then a sermon. However I think this post is pretty harsh and lacks any sense of compassion. I also find your building analogy insensitive and disconnected from addictions. Addictions are way more complicated then just a sinful pattern. For the most part I agree with the advice in your post, however I think you could have done a better job writing it. You might want to give it another try.

  Jason Aronne | Tue 28 Oct 2008

• I'm sorry you feel that way. I'd be happy to talk with you in person about it.

  I don't think it's insensitive to say that people are responsible for their actions even if they've lost control of them. That's pretty much what the Bible says and I'll stick with that.

  Vince Gierer | Tue 28 Oct 2008

• I agree that this is a complicated issue. The point of Vince's blog was simply that in a sermon about single sexuality, it is impossible to cover all the issues.

  For many singles, the advice of "keep your pants on, guard your gift... stay away from porn, etc" is helpful. For many who deal with issues of lust, wondering about barriers in dating, etc, this is good and helpful advice.

  For people with more serious sexual issues--porn addictions, sexual addictions, and extreme sexual dysfunctions--this advice is less helpful (though not less true).

  As Vince said, it is not hard for God to forgive sexual sin, but it is hard to get out of it.

  What we flirt with we will fall to and what we feed will flourish.

  For people who have fallen to more serious sexual sin or have been feeding their unhealthy sexual appetite for a long time (or have simply been binging for a short time), confession, counseling and healing prayer are probably the best next steps.

  I do not think this advice lacks compassion. In fact I think the opposite is true. I think it lacks compassion to allow people to wallow in sin.

  A good friend of mine just about ruined his life (family, job, ministry) as the result of a sexual addiction. People around him (his friends) were way too tolerant of his sin patterns, didn't ask enough hard questions, etc.

  It wasn't until a good friend really challenged him and named the truth of how bad his sin had become that he was finally able to get help. While this is hard, it is necessary.

  We are a community of healing. We will walk beside anyone seeking healing and restoration. We believe in the power of the Holy Spirit to not just forgive but restore.
  

  We are a community of grace--but not cheap grace.

  Cheap grace is grace without confession, without repentance (all 5 steps of repentance as Vince posted on earlier), and without sacrifice.

  Costly grace is the grace that comes from bearing the cross and following Jesus no matter the cost...

  Cheap grace leads to more sin and bondage.

  Costly grace leads to healing and restoration.

  I know of no more compassionate thing than to preach--and live out--the Gospel of Costly Grace!

  Ben Dubow | Tue 28 Oct 2008

• Vince,

  Your first two paragraphs of the post nailed it. But when you started in about the building and how easy it is to see a counselor (which has only been available for two weeks now through St. Paul's...) and poof your life is better, you lost a lot of credibility and respect in the post.

  I have lived with a sexual addiction going on 12 years now and only until 6 months ago did anyone know about it's full effect on me. Let me tell you - it is possibly the most painful thing I have ever lived with and your analogy of me jumping off a tall building and being unable to un-choose my choice is highly offensive and untrue.

  Jumping off a building implies that there is no going back and that I am not able to be helped. Sexual addiction becomes a thirst that is only quenched a certain way and it becomes unbearable to avoid it. It seems to me that this is something that you have very little experience personally with, and helping others deal with for that matter, and as awesome as it is that you've never suffered from this, you should be very careful how you post about these kinds of issues on this blog.

  There are probably more people than you think in our community that deal with this on a regular basis and posts like these only criticize what is very real to us. I assume that the lack of compassion in your post is because it's written in word, not spoken in person.

  Maybe amend your original post?

  Anonymous | Tue 28 Oct 2008

• I think the issue here is that this really needs to be addressed in a much more extensive manner.

  Vince, I think your post is very accurate. I do not notice a lack of compassion. However, it was written in a very flippant way. The thing is, though... That was kind of the point of this post. Not to fully delve into the complexity and reality of sexual addiction, but to touch on it briefly.
  

  I think the building analogy is good to a point. When you are caught in sexual or any type of addiction, it is very much like being in a free fall. you cannot simply decide to stop being addicted same as you cant just decide to stop falling. However, while the initial decisions that eventually lead to addictive behavior are your own responsibility, i would hesitate to compare that to the decision to "jump." It is more like the decision to get a good look from the edge... and then the floor falls from under your feet. You make it seem that addiction is a choice... I think that is why you may have come off as insensitive. The only part of the post that I out and out disagree with is the last few sentences (and even though I may disagree with the context in which they are used, i still think they are accurate and positive statements... if that makes sense): "And you CAN get help you need. So do it. Contact a counselor. We've made it easy."

  The main reason addiction is so hard to overcome is the that it is tied so closely with helplessness. The difficult part is not contacting a counselor... or realizing you can get help or you should get help... The difficult part is deciding TO get help. This is so true with both addiction and depression... You know there is help, you know how to get it, you know it will make everything better... but you can't get out of the hole. You cant bring yourself to get the help you need. I dealt with some serious depression for about 4 years... Depression becomes an addiction after a while, almost a comfort. The end of your post makes it seem as if anyone caught in addiction has only themselves to blame because help is out there. It is a much much more complicated issue than that.

  But again, and I cannot stress this enough, this was just a small posting not designed to fully address the issue so I think any insensitivity can be forgiven as it was obviously not the intent. Though, when dealing with addiction and reaction to addiction, words must be chosen very carefully as the only one who knows the true impact of those words is the one in the midst of the addiction. Not the one offering up help or good intentions.

  Nick_Santostefano | Tue 28 Oct 2008

• Good comments... but let me just add some general ground rules for commenting, lol...

  While this issue is a tough one, I think implying a lack of compassion, etc, is both not helpful and hurtful. We can all disagree on issues and discuss issues but need to be careful about attacking people's motives and heart.

  So... the blog is a great place for issues discussion, opinions, stories, questions, etc... but let's keep it to that.

  Thanks.

  Ben Dubow | Wed 29 Oct 2008

• I don't think the comment "see a counselor" is either flippant nor lacks compassion. Nor do I think that the building analogy implies hopelessness--just helplessness, which is really an important realization with addictions. (And while St. Paul's has only had counselors for a few weeks, counselors have been available generally for a long time... I know because I refer people all the time!)

  Two important steps in dealing with addictions are (1) complete surrender of the issue to God and (2) the acknowledgment that you are powerless over the issue.

  I have to say that I agree 100% with what Vince said in the post and in his series. In fact, some of the pushback confirms for me the importance of being more bold on these issues than perhaps we have been.

  Let me be clear...

  For people caught in serious sexual sin (addiction being just one expression of this), let me simply reiterate what Vince said in the series:

  1. God loves you, we love you, and there is always forgiveness and restoration.

  2. Sexual sin is hard to forgive, but it is hard to get out of.

  3. In many respects it is like a cancer. One does not manage a cancer, but cuts it out/off. Radical treatment is necessary--surgery, chemo, radiation, etc. It is hard, painful, and not guaranteed to succeed. But it is the only option. Likewise, if you are caught up in serious sexual sin, radical treatment and intervention is probably necessary -- not just will power and trying harder.

  4. The least compassionate thing we can do is let people stay in their sin or not call serious sin sin. Freedom (and compassion) always are grounded in truth.

  5. I know many people -- both friends and people I have helped in ministry -- who have overcome these issues. I also know many who have not. The difference often was simply the willingness to get help.

  Now some will say that my comment lacks even more compassion. All I can tell you is that my heart literally breaks for people who are dealing with these issues and one of my deepest prayers is that we would be a community where healing and restoration takes place for them.

  When Jesus comes across a paralyzed man sitting in his mat waiting to be moved into the pool of Siloam to experience healing, he asks him a simple question: "Do you want to be well?"

  I used to think that was either a harsh or dumb question.

  I used to think that Jesus lacked compassion for that man.

  I used to think that this was a terrible question to ask.

  Now I understand it is the first question that must be asked: DO YOU WANT TO BE WELL.

  If yes, I am with you and will walk beside you and will cry... suffer... lament... celebrate... and in every other way BE WITH YOU.

  If no, there is little I can do.

  BD

  Ben Dubow | Wed 29 Oct 2008

• I stumbled across your blog and was interested in it as I have been treating sexual addictions for over 20 years as a Christian counselor here in California.

  I also took the time to watch the videos of your messages.

  Let me start by saying WELL DONE! I thought your messages were Biblical, pastoral, clear, honest, vulnerable, compassionate (and funny). Keep it up!

  I also think your building analogy is an apt one. Whenever I begin a therapeutic process with a client, one of the things we do is explore the equivalent of "the first drink". In the clinical world of addictions, we understand that for the client often the first drink (or deviant sexual experience or adrenalin rush or whatever is at the base of the addiction) is indeed like dancing at the edge of a buildings roof. It is volitional (chosen) and controllable (willful) but also powerfully dangerous. For some, it is the "second drink" or experience that pushes them over the edge... others the third or fourth.
  

  But for all caught in addictions, at some point they step off the ledge and cannot stop short of both divine and human intervention.

  The reason people try to live with and manage their addictions is they fail to see the free fall they are in.

  No one liked to be told that they are (a) falling rapidly towards almost inevitable death, or that (b) they stepped off the ledge themselves.

  However, in my experience, recognition of those two things is 100% essential to beginning the healing process: (1) yes, it is now outside my control and apart from God I am helpless and hopeless; and (2) I am responsible for my predicament--no one else. I must own my addiction for myself and my role in creating it.

  While many may be predisposed to addictions, it is still sin and choice that get us into them. We are all predisposed to sin and disobedience and must own it ourselves.

  Many blessings on you and your ministry.

  Dr. James M Carlson

  Dr. James M Carlson | Wed 29 Oct 2008

• Ben -

  We must have posted at the same time... I think your reference to "do you want to get well" is appropriate and right on. This question is always the starting point of therapy and healing.

  Vince -

  I hear your pastor's heart in your message and posts. Keep it up.

  Anon -

  That is a gutsy post. I am glad you have come to terms with your addiction. I hope (and assume) you are getting help for it. In addition to a professional counselor, I would recommend you look into a Sexual Addiction Recovery Group such as SA (www.sa.org) or a Celebrate Recovery ministry. I am sure your pastor can help you find a group nearby.
  

  There are also very good programs online such as www.pureonline.com or www.purelifeministries.org.
  

  For some people, the best option is really a residential treatment program such as www.bethesdaworkshops.org.

  I pray you will get the help you need. You are lucky to be in a church where these issues are not taboo and you have pastors willing to preach grace and truth together.

  Again, many blessings to you all.

  Dr. James M Carlson

  Dr. James M Carlson | Wed 29 Oct 2008

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